The conversation with Maria Clara Araújo dos Passos considers the possibilities of institutional change through body or identity politics. In her 2022 book Pedagogias das Travestilidades, Maria Clara Araújo combines reflections on her personal fight for self-determination with a wider analysis of the impact of grassroot trans and travesti movements in Brazil. Araújo addresses the construction of gender, the relationship between the body and education, and the possibilities of transformation through radical pedagogies, claiming ‘Nossos corpos são pedagógicos’ (Our bodies are pedagogical). This conversation is part of a series of activations of the exhibition Exercises in Transformation—Sergio Zevallos.